Review the Classics ｜ The Creative Talk： ＂Jia Baoyu＂ Ouyang Fenqiang’s Story of A Dream of Red Mansions
1905 movie network news Editor’s Note: The premiere of "Revisiting Classics" Channel — — The 87 th edition not only received enthusiastic response when it was broadcast, but also became a classic in the minds of several generations after years of precipitation. The actor of "Jia Baoyu" in the play, from the insecure candidate, to the mature actor and then to the behind-the-scenes director, has also taken the initiative to shoulder a public welfare identity in recent years — — Cultural communicator of A Dream of Red Mansions.
Recently, the China Television Arts Committee specially invited Ouyang Fenqiang, the director, to be interviewed, reviewing the birth of the classic character "Jia Baoyu" and talking about the anecdotes behind the scenes.
Q: When did you first get involved in acting?
A: I started filming when I was 12 years old. At that time, there was a literary propaganda team and a story team in the Children’s Palace, and I told stories in the story team. When the teacher took us on a lecture tour to various schools, I was seen by the literary director in sctv, so I was invited to tell a story at the TV station, and then I was seen by the director of Emei Film Studio, so I went to the film studio to make a film in 1976. The first film I made was Spring Tide, which was based on a novel by Sichuan writer Ke Fei. I played the son of a widow, and this was my first time in film and television.
At the beginning of 1977, Chengdu Sichuan Opera Troupe rehearsed Yang Kaihui’s Sichuan Opera "Die Lian Hua" and needed an actor to play Mao Anying. The troupe didn’t have a child of twelve or thirteen years old, so others recommended that there was a child in a certain school. He used to tell stories well, but later he went to make a movie. Let’s call him and have a try. At that time, seven or eight children were called to audition. Of course, there was no suspense later. I won’t have to go to school. I will attend rehearsals during the day and perform at night. At that time, the teachers of the troupe liked me better, so as a special talent, I was directly recruited to the Sichuan Troupe as a professional actor. When I arrived at Sichuan Opera Troupe, the film studio came to me whenever there was a role of a child. The Sichuan Opera Troupe said that you might as well transfer him directly to the film studio, so I transferred to the film studio to be a full-time film actor when I was about 16 years old, but at that time I was a walk-on and played some small roles. Later, sctv filmed the first TV series "Yang Xiaoliang" and asked me to play Yang Xiaoliang, a young man who was unemployed. Then I met A Dream of Red Mansions.
Q: How did you get the role of Jia Baoyu?
A: When the crew of A Dream of Red Mansions was doing the first class in Yuanmingyuan, they had not yet chosen an actor to play Jia Baoyu.
The director was determined to find a boy to play Jia Baoyu. The audience of Jia Baoyu accepts girls to play, which is a convention from the aesthetic point of view. However, director Wang Fulin thinks that if you get a girl to play, no matter how good you look, there are still traces of acting, so I hope it will still be played by boys, at least his version of A Dream of Red Mansions is played by boys. But the image of Jia Baoyu is really special. He is a boy, he is a lovely boy, and he is a lovely boy with a face full of powder, so it is not easy to find. Mr. Wu Zuguang, the consultant of the crew, said that if you are looking for a boy to play Jia Baoyu in China, this Jia Baoyu has not yet been born. However, director Wang Fulin insisted on his own creative ideas, so Jia Baoyu was not in the first class, and he was still looking everywhere in the country.
Many people recommended me to go. Zhang Yuping and Gao Hongliang, whom I worked with in the first class, were all recommended to the director and deputy director. Wang Dao didn’t take it to heart at first, because children recommended children, which was not very convincing. At this time, Wang Dao will go to Emei Mountain to find the stone under the green ridge peak, just to Chengdu. Accompanying him to Chengdu, she was already booked to play Wang Xifeng. She is from Sichuan Theatre, so she found out the address and came to our house to find me. But when I was away, she left me a note saying that Wang Fulin, the director of the TV series Dream of Red Mansions, wanted to see you, and asked me to meet Wang Fulin in Room 305 of Jinjiang Hotel at 10: 00 the next morning. It happened that I had to go out with the film crew the next day, so I didn’t have time. And I thought, how could this opportunity fall on my head? I didn’t even plan to go. Later, my dad told me, go there, maybe this is an opportunity. I listened to my dad and rode a broken bike to Jinjiang Hotel after 10 pm. Wang Dao hasn’t rested yet. When he heard it was me, he said he had an appointment for tomorrow morning. I said I’m going to shoot tomorrow. Then I chatted with him. He asked me if I had played any plays, and I said what I had played. At that time, Yang Xiaoliang was broadcast on CCTV.
Then he said that we have selected more than 20 Jia Baoyu from all over the country, and we want to try the lens in Beijing. Can you come too? I said I didn’t have time to come. Because I thought to myself, it can’t be me. Don’t bother. Besides, I don’t have time to go while filming on the set. Later, Wang Dao said, well, you come by plane. Because in those days, flying was important, and the average actor couldn’t fly. As soon as I heard that someone invited me to fly, I managed to eat and drink, and I had never been to Beijing, so I decided to go and play. I came to Beijing with this mentality. I also prepared a passage the night before the audition. I recited the words of Baodai Reading the West Chamber about twice. When we arrived at the scene that day, 25 people each went up to perform. After the test, I had to rush back to Chengdu. The crew said there was no air ticket. At that time, there was only one flight a day, so it was difficult to buy air tickets. I said I couldn’t. I had to go back to filming. Two hours later, the crew said you should go, and we settled a first-class ticket for you. I was even more shocked. At that time, bureau-level cadres were eligible to fly first class. How could they be so friendly to me? Is it still interesting to me? I took this question and went home to film.
The crew sent a letter of business transfer soon, without informing me. It was public to public. At that time, we were filming in the mountains, and the telephone was disconnected, which was not as developed as communication now. So at that time, people all over the country knew that I was going to play Baoyu, but I didn’t know. CCTV has already spread the story about who was decided by Jia Baoyu in A Dream of Red Mansions, and all the four official media at that time published the news and all my photos, but I don’t know in the mountains. Not long after I returned to Chengdu and entered the house, there was a loud knock on the door, and I opened it and saw that seven or eight reporters had stuck in our house to interview me, saying that you were playing Jia Baoyu. I said I just tried the lens, don’t talk nonsense. They said it was all in the newspaper. The next day, I rode my bike back to the Eying Actors Troupe and asked our head. I said, what happened to the head? Why did the reporter come to interview me? What did he say? The regiment said, it’s really settled. You should hurry to Beijing.
That’s how I got to Beijing. At this time, the second class was already halfway through.
Q: Is the process of integrating into the role smooth?
A: Because I joined late, I didn’t take part in the lectures, piano, chess, calligraphy and painting given by the experts in the first class, so I was under great pressure. They are all very familiar with each other, so I am so nervous that I can’t let go. At that time, everyone’s role was decided. In the study class, everyone mainly prepared clips and sketches according to their own roles, and reported them to the director group and those mature teachers every once in a while. The teachers would also advise you on how to perform. There is also reading books by yourself and reading the original Dream of Red Mansions. How could I understand A Dream of Red Mansions at that time? It was a gobbledygook. So the pressure is very high.
Director Wang Fulin said one day, you are old-fashioned with a hand on your back every day, which is like a perverse and lovely Jia Baoyu? You look like a Taoist Xu that Jia Zheng likes. He said this was not the way to do it, so later he had a meeting with the whole cast, especially the cast, and announced at the meeting that I would not be allowed to read novels or write any desk work. Because of the great psychological pressure, you can’t enter the state and relax. How to relax? Your task is to play pranks every day, and to fool a person every day. You can fool whoever you want, but just don’t read books, and you can go to the girl’s bed and have a fight. In fact, he used this method to integrate you into a group and relax your whole body and mind. Therefore, I think director Wang Fulin is very methodical, very grounded to inspire actors to enter the role.
The next step was the shooting process. At that time, I was still under pressure, and I couldn’t wait for the director to replace me. The first scene I shot was that Qin Keqing was sick in bed, and Wang Xifeng took Baoyu to visit the sick. I was so nervous that I didn’t fall asleep all night. I guess I should quit my job after the scene was filmed. That’s the feeling. After the performance, I quickly paid attention to the director’s expression, saw the director smiling and nodding frequently, and then consulted everyone around. What about Baoyu? Everyone said yes, yes, good, good. From his expression, I felt that he was quite satisfied. His satisfaction really opened my heart, and the stone fell forever. So if you go further back, you can do whatever you want.
Q: Looking back on the cooperation with director Wang Fulin, what are your feelings?
A: The director said something harsh about me. When Baoyu told Daiyu the story of mouse essence in Xiaoxiang Pavilion, there were many lines, all of which were Jia Baoyu’s words. I didn’t prepare them carefully and didn’t memorize them. When shooting, I forgot the words when I thought about it, and I forgot the words when I thought about it. The performance was not vivid at all. Wang Dao was in a hurry, so he said a few harsh words and scolded me for not being prepared seriously. He said that in such an interesting scene, you are such an important role. If you want to ruin the scene, you will ruin it. Our efforts and painstaking efforts for several years will be in vain. You can’t act like this. The story of mouse essence should be very happy, naughty and perverse, and it is vivid. Now you are reciting an eight-part essay, not telling a story, so you criticize me. From then on, I never dared not recite words, including later becoming a director myself. I also told many actors that reciting lines is a basic artistic virtue. Whether your play is good or not, you have to memorize the words first to match the word actor.
Wang Dao cultivated virtually every character in the play. Today, people say "A Dream of Red Mansions" and these characters. In fact, how did we know "A Dream of Red Mansions" at that time? I think there is only one actor among us who really understands and loves A Dream of Red Mansions. Many of us didn’t understand A Dream of Red Mansions, but a blank sheet of paper was given to the director, who drew every character he wanted on it.
Looking back now, he was under great pressure. In the process of writing A Dream of Red Mansions, he faced the crisis of being almost replaced many times. At that time, there were very different views on him. I thought he couldn’t shoot it, saying that the TV series "Dream of Red Mansions" had been shot badly. You see, many amateur actors, shoe repairers in leather shoes factories, salespeople in department stores and telephone operators in people’s communes are used. Who are they? How can they shoot A Dream of Red Mansions well? A bunch of children don’t know how to shoot A Dream of Red Mansions? In fact, this voice has been accompanied by Wang Dao, and I don’t believe that Wang Dao can shoot successfully. Therefore, in the process of filming A Dream of Red Mansions, Wang Fulin always looked at him with countless pairs of questioning and suspicious eyes. He was working on A Dream of Red Mansions under such great pressure, so Hu Zehong, who played Cherish Spring at that time, gave him a nickname called Lonely Little Boy. He is lonely under this pressure, but his prime minister can punt in his stomach. I think he is very tolerant and a director with general style.
He is actually Wang Dadan. He dares to think what others dare not think and do what others dare not do. Who dare to use a group of children who have no acting experience and don’t understand A Dream of Red Mansions to play A Dream of Red Mansions? He dares. Who dares to play Jia Baoyu with boys? He dares. Wang Liping was under great pressure to make music at that time, because in everyone’s impression, Wang Liping composed music with pop music. How can classical masterpieces use pop music? He dares to shoot this board. Including makeup artists and dressers, many of them are the first time to do it, and he dares to use it. According to him, I would rather use someone who is dedicated than someone who is experienced but not dedicated. Of course, this play has also made these people. So I think Wang Dao is really a great TV director who should be recorded in the history of the development of China TV series.
Q: What were the shooting conditions of the crew at that time? How do you overcome and balance all kinds of difficulties?
A: There was no meat to eat at that time. We live in a guest house of a vegetable company opposite Nancaiyuan (now Grand View Garden), a big bungalow with a canteen. The meals of the crew are often all Chinese cabbage, vermicelli and tofu, and no meat is seen. When we were young, we wanted to eat meat. What should we do? I went to the mall to buy instant noodles and lunch meat in bulk, and processed them by myself in the electric stove at night. Without vegetables, Chinese cabbages in vegetable companies are frozen on the side of the road in winter. In the evening, I took several actors from the cast, such as Gao Hongliang and Ma Guangru who played Gary, to get cabbages. Because the crew’s food was standard, and at that time every sum of money had to be audited, completely according to the standard. One day, the crew asked Chen Xiaoxu and I to go to the city to find a leader, saying that we were hungry and had no meat. In the evening, secretary and district head of Xuanwu District … … The leaders all came to the site to work, and the district paid subsidies so that the dolls could eat meat.
Although the conditions were difficult, everyone kept improving in the whole creative process. I remember that the props used at that time were all real. We shot the location in the West Lake in Hangzhou, and all the other scenes were finished, so we couldn’t shoot Baodai Reading the West Chamber because the peach blossoms didn’t bloom. It was already spring in March, but the flowers couldn’t bloom that year because of the rain and low temperature. I also joked to the director that fake flowers could be used, but I couldn’t see them anyway. The director ignored me. The whole crew stayed in Hangzhou for several days, just to wait until the peach blossoms opened before filming this scene. Therefore, although the crew has no money, Wang Dao is very strict about the quality.
I shot that scene of "A vast expanse of whiteness is really clean", that is, the scene where Baoyu finally disappeared in the snow. It was shot on the same day as Deng Jie’s "Smart and Tired" (Wang Xifeng was buried in the snow with a broken straw mat), and we both experienced minus 25 degrees and heavy snow. Because the song "Smart and Tired" is very long, Deng Jie was dragged in the snow, and the picture had to match the song, so we couldn’t stop. Wearing little clothes, it was MINUS 25 degrees, and when I finally put her in the car, the whole person almost fainted.
Hardship is hardship, but we always strive for perfection in creation.
Q: What influence did A Dream of Red Mansions have on your later life?
A: After filming, everyone will go their separate ways, and those who should go back to the factory will go back to the factory. Director Wang Fulin told me that you played A Dream of Red Mansions and Jia Baoyu, and you will not find it enjoyable to play any role in the future, because the play is too big. I said, then I’ll be a director behind the scenes. Later, the leaders of CCTV wrote a letter directly to the leaders of sctv, recommending me to go to sctv. So I transferred the TV station from the film factory at that time, and all the relationships were transferred in five days, without any obstacles.
Q: What do you think of the significance of the establishment of the "Revisiting Classics" channel?
A: I think it’s a good thing to show the importance and care for the classics with practical actions. For those of us who have participated in classic creation, it is a support of spiritual strength.
In 2017, A Dream of Red Mansions was broadcast for 30 years, and the commemorative activities were organized by me. I begged for money everywhere. At that time, the idea was that anyone who was a member of the Red Mansion crew could come and have a real party, including the voice actor, and I also managed to eat and travel. Not only the crew will come, but also I will gather the red fans from all over the country. Later, some actors came back from abroad at their own expense, and they didn’t want me to give money, but also found their own hotels. On the morning of the event, I held a meeting with fans in the Botanical Garden and performed in the Great Hall of the People in the evening. It was hard to get a ticket for more than 5,000 seats. As soon as the curtain opened, there was a cry on stage and off stage. After the whole performance that day, everyone left. My wife and daughter and I walked out of the Great Hall of the People. It was drizzling outside, and the three of us were sitting on the steps of the Great Hall of the People. I was in tears at that time.
I have been doing activities to promote A Dream of Red Mansions since 2017, including entering universities, middle schools and primary schools, and some activities to promote A Dream of Red Mansions in cooperation with the government. I feel that although I am not a researcher of A Dream of Red Mansions, I can at least be a communicator. There are various ways and means to spread A Dream of Red Mansions, including the spread of radio dramas, dance dramas and ballet. Then I spread the stories behind the scenes of the 87th edition of A Dream of Red Mansions, which is also a kind of communication. The purpose is to make more people pay attention to, like and understand A Dream of Red Mansions. So I think that "reviewing the classics" is a spiritual power.
Q: When you retire, are there any messages for young TV artists?
A: I retired on March 5th this year. I have been in film for 48 years and worked for 46 years. I have experienced the development and prosperity of China TV series. When I was just engaged in the performance of TV series, China TV series had not yet formed its own mature style. I watched the TV series step by step towards glory, and later formed its own TV drama aesthetics. I think I have no message for young people, and I have to learn from many young art forms, keep pace with the times, follow the pace of the times, feel the context of the times, and continue to seek.
Oral guest: Ouyang Fenqiang
Invited interview and arrangement: Lin Hui (oral history expert of China Communication University)
Planning: Li Xuan, Zhao Cong